Zero Carb Attracts Anorexics
Already from the start of the Zero Carb forum, there was a large number of members that were trying to recover from Eating Disorders. The proportion of ED’ers as compared to other dieters seems to have kept on increasing so now the entire board gives the impression of an “ED recovery zone.”
I can understand why Zero Carb would be attractive to people with eating disorders. It has many traits that are similar; very limited food choices, very strict rules about what is allowed and what is not, recommendations such as “eat ground beef only” for 6 months, and members who report how they easily can go 24 or even 36 hours without eating and not feeling hunger. Not to mention the natural appetite suppression that comes from a protein-only diet.
This “ED recovery zone” is headed by a newly self-appointed ED specialist. A guy that never suffered from an ED, who never was very overweight in the first place, who used to work out a lot, and who lost the vast majority of his weight on lowcarb, not zero carb.
The “ED treatment” on the board took a bizarre twist the other day. A very new member who has suffered from anorexia for years and is working on her own recovery decided that is was time to intervene with another, long time, member. What compelled her to do this, I have no idea. I know that anorexia is not the same as alcoholism, but wouldn’t the same sponsor rules apply? In AA you are not allowed to give advice to anyone before you have a substantial time of your own recovery under your belt. Makes sense to me.
So, did the moderators intervene? No. On the contrary, they were applauding this new member and supporting her. Threatening to contact the long time member’s parents, the gym she goes to, and demanding daily posts with pictures of herself and the food she eats.
Medusa has all the details.
This Zero Carb forum has always frowned upon people that have not openly disclosed their real name. The admins apparently have no problem using this information, plus full name and address given when donating to the forum, to brow beat a member into doing what they want. Scary.
I do hope any new member take precautions to keep their identity private. Who knows when you would do something that displeases the admins and they decide to come after you?
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Comments
OMG that website is f-ed up! “Not even a salad?” WTF!?
And then talking about having grease stains on their clothes? This is not natural or healthy, carbohydrates are an essential nutrient, discusting.
Excuse me… i am one recovering anorexic from that site. dont knock it til you try it, thanks. please show me a “recovered anorexic” who has not relapsed or turned binge eater for a period. actual recovered anorexics rarely exist, anywhere, and if they do then they are still so caught up in the disorder that theyre still sucked in starting blogs like this. conventional treatment does not work and it is bullshit, i know ive been there done that.
if you were to look at the scientific component of eating disorders, anxiety, depression all the sort, do the real research the only conclusion you can come to is the fact that zero carb will make an eating disorder liveable.
“Carbohydrates are an essential nutrient?” Could Samantha please elaborate and specify what deficiency diseases result from not eating carbs? Keep in mind there are Inuit populations who did not eat carbs, and there was an experiment in Bellevue hospital in the 1930s with two people eating just meat for a year.
Also, there is no advice to eat ground beef for six months (or even at all). Some members live on ground beef, some eat it occasionally, some never touch the stuff. I’m not sure if the rules are that strict, and are certainly not complex: basically take vegetarianism and invert it. Eat beef, fish, eggs, chicken, cheese, lobster, chicken, etc.
The blowup on the ED forum was…complex, with a lot of hurt feelings on all sides. I would certainly agree with “bizarre” as well.
Joe,the recommendation to eat ground beef for six months before complaining that ZC does not work was made some time ago, when both Charles and other prominent members saw ground beef as the perfect food. But of course, the ZC ideal seems to be a moving target. At one time it was pemmican. At one time it was cooked rare. No salt. No spices. Then fully cooked. Presently it seems to be a variety of meats, and butter.
So if half-raw, unseasoned ground beef was so perfect, why did anybody ever think of trying anything else?
Mallory, you are not recovered yet, are you? Girl, you are scary thin. I hope you will break free and find what works for you. Charles and his religion obviously ain’t it. I want you to have all the potential you can. ZC ain’t workin’ for you. If it were, you would be there by now. You want kids, a life? Then follow what works FOR YOU, not what someone says. Gain some weight and get healthy! NOW! Should an anorexic fear carbs?
PS. Aren’t these your latest pics?
http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=1272&pid=183883#pid183883
Hi, could you give a link to the recommendation about eating ground beef for 6 months before complaining, or Charles offering ground beef as a perfect food (or arguing for rare)? Whichever one you can find fastest is fine. I ask because I’m skeptical.
I’ve followed the forum for a few months, and have read many of the old threads, but don’t recall Charles making *any* of those statements, and can recall reading the exact opposite (i.e. ground beef isn’t magic; pemmican isn’t magic; heck, he’s even said meat isn’t magic(!)). You could be thinking of:
http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=1458&page=1
The writer recommends pemmican if you fail to lose weight on meat and water, and admittedly has a writing style that tends to be over the top at times 
Joe, I wish I could give you links. However, not being a member the forum is not easily searchable for me. I just remember these statements by Charles standing out at the time I read them.
Not exactly what I referred to, but something along those lines was a post by Charles in the pemmican thread Jan. 19, 2009: “Most people don’t know about pemmican and that’s primarily the reason why people don’t understand ZC. It is entirely based on pemmican and the way beef, fat and water sustained thousands of people for thousands of years without vegetable matter. To be ZC, one would be very wise to understand all aspects of pemmican. NBBA is a must-read to understand why we feel we get all the nutrients necessary for excellent health from muscle meat alone.”
Trying to remember where I saw the six months statement, I looked at Carolina’s journal (as I think it was in direct reference to her complaints about not losing) but it’s just too many posts to even attempt to wade through. But starting to read this thread from the beginning is pretty interesting. To see how many “unregistered” posters there are. So if ZC is so perfect, why do so many people leave?
It’s hard to say if more people leave ZC vs. other approaches. There is a policy at ZIOH that people who are inactive for several months are deleted. Other forums I’m on don’t work that way, so when you look at old threads it’s hard to know who is still there. There’s also the optimistic view that perhaps they all achieved health and don’t need the forum any more
Looking at Charles’s post, I don’t see the point as being people should necessarily eat pemmican, rather it’s about how little people need to remain alive and healthy. If a stripped down version of meat can sustain people, even without vegetation, then real meat and water should work fine.
joe
Mariasol,
I have not taken the time to thank you for these blog posts. Thank you for these blog posts! Good luck finding specific posts on ZIOH. The forum has bulimia. You see, the entire ED thread has been purged. It happens regularly, this binging and purging.
As far as the practice of zero carb eating itself, well all foods have carbs. Even meat contains glycogen in some amount. Some people do appear to do well on it, at least in the short term that people have been shunning plant matter. Other people have had problems with the diet for one reason or another and have abandoned it. We are individuals with individual needs.
Historically, no peoples that I am aware have ever completely shunned all plant foods. The Inuit probably have the lowest carb diet of any traditional group. They obviously survived on such a plan, but they are also not known to be the most healthy in terms of their bones past age 40. Scientific studies bear this out. Anyone can see many such studies by doing a simple search.
im not trying to convince any of you to be zero carb, but to say it attracts anorexics in a fashion not demmable for recovery is pure bullshit. and sataya, thanks for the concern but im doing just fine. and by the way, shouldnt an anorexic fear carbs when theyre what ended me up 89lbs to begin with??!?!
i’ve yet to see anyone show me a better option.. please show me recovery from anorexia… i’m all ears…
Joe, you haven’t been at the ZIOH forum long enough, but I can confirm what mariasol said, at the outset ground beef was recommended the best food, most of the senior members ate that exclusively, when I was in the losing weight stage, I did notice I lost best on ground beef, the pemmican was also recommended to anyone who can’t lose weight on fresh meat, Charles stated several times that pemmican is the perfect protein/fat proportion for any of us, unfortunately pemmican proved to be less than ideal for me, point is no such thing as one solution that fits all am afraid.
As for the rare/medium/well cooked, again, at start everyone was recommended to cook their meat at least to medium to get all the nutrients from the meat, else we’ll face deficiency, I went away for a little while and when I came back, suddenly the advise is to cook meat well to stop leg cramps!!
The idea that some people may have specific deficiencies and may need the supplementation was completely rejected, if someone had problem but Charles and his side-kick didn’t have it (e.g. hair loss, fatigueless, nausea, no weight loss) then it was rejected, members with the problem were told its their fault and discussion was closed.
No denying this eating plan is a work-in progress and we all have been a sort of guinea pigs, each experiment and see what works better for them, but the problem is some members do not appreciate that what’s best for one person may not be suitable for another, each has different medical history, health history, sex, age and activity level. It would have been really good if there was some tolerance on that site and open minded attitudes, there are many overweight members there that haven’t lost much weight, there are many ED members that are underweight and haven’t gained or gained a negligible amount e.g. Mall I think you declared that in the last year of ZC you gained just over 3lbs, right? Suppose it’s better than losing more, but 3lbs gain is not exactly recovery, right? Now if such problems were addressed in a more objective way instead of just telling members:
•You must be doing it wrong,
•Do as you are told,
•Do ZC our way or take the highway
The forum would have grown into something positive instead of all that ugly ugly attitudes towards anyone who does not fit their definition.
P.S Mall mot discouraging you from working on your recovery at all, at least you are trying hard, and I know with your determination you’ll get there.
•You must be doing it wrong,
•Do as you are told,
•Do it our way or take the highway
Where have we heard this before? I’ll give you a hint – where we heard it before included another gem – “You must not want it bad enough”
The ZC community at ZIOH is a sick community. I pray all members make it out with their health and mental states intact.
No sane person can read that board without intense feelings of distaste for the megalomaniacal attitude of the board ‘leader’, board bullying and conditioning/brainwashing taking place there. Using people as guinea pigs is deplorable.
Those who are here defending that board and dysfunction will eventually wake up and wonder where their critical thinking skills had vacated to all this time. At that point, many will rejoice.
Until then, my prayers are with those who have fallen under the spell of modern witch doctor Charles Manson Washington.
I would love to read a sociologist’s thoughts regarding ZIOH, particularly this latest episode. I don’t know much about cults (hence my wanting a sociologist’s view) but the whole Katelyn/Kari fiasco is, IMHO, not really about Katelyn, Kari, or eating disorders. It’s really about what cults must do from time to time to stay powerful. Cults need “enemies” on the outside to foster an us vs. them belief, but they also need “sacrificial lambs” on the inside – someone who acts as an example of what will happen if a member doesn’t behave in an acceptable manner. Not only will such a person be shunned, they will also be persecuted when they leave, unless they can prove to the cult that they are willing to do whatever it takes to stay in the cult’s good graces. I’m not saying that this was intentionally plannned out; it’s more how things naturally and unwittingly evolve in cultish groups.
ZIOH is an internet forum and certainly not a real cult that has its members living together and isolated from others. But I’ve always thought there was something cult-like about it and this latest episode has done nothing to dissuade me from that belief.
oh really… and all the supposedly eating disorder “recoverees” dont cult together in the same fashion? y’all disclude yourself from everything, using your disorder to rely on a setback or relapse. y’all are constantly checking each others blogs, obessessed beyond belief with other people’s “recovery” stories and what they eat. thats NOT recovery. constantly talking about your disorder and not MOVING ON is NOT recovery. a CARNIVOROUS DIET allows me to do just that. i have been able to separate my anorexic past from what and how i am now. i could really care less about your blog however misinterrpreting how a carnivorous diet affect the disordered eater is obviously over your head. OR… it could possibly be that you and your hose of ED followers are jealous of the potential recovery, are you scared for it?
“I’m not saying that this was intentionally plannned out”
I’ll say it. That whole thing read like one big scripted “let’s run Katelyn off once and for all” mess from the start and now of course Kari is gone. Those people don’t allow you to breathe there without permission if you’re new but that Kari chick was allowed to throw out threats and ultimatums as a hello introduction?
“Mallory looks like she’s still anorexic to me.”
So does queen bee Suzanne. Especially her hair and skin.
On the other hand Katelyn’s hair and skin looks healthy and shiny.
Katelyn works in a law office so hopefully she is aware but if not many states are now going after cyber bullies hard. Her well documented treatment from those in charge there would certainly qualify as cyber bullying. Threatening to have her committed or stalk her at her gym? All because she’s got a higher than normal level of self esteem and eats her meals at a specific time? Hello the majority of the world eats their meals at specific times.
I was delisted without notice because I was struggling. It really upset me. I felt tossed out and abandoned because I wasn’t a glowing success story. It was bullshit. I didn’t even get to say goodbye to members I had grown to like. I like to think if they knew how I was treated they might protest. But then, they would be out too.
There’s a growing number of people jumping off the bully boat and posting at the very supportive Active Low Carber forums, fyi.
hello. I just read that thread and it was very saddening to see such behaviour. I don’t believe in this ‘tough love’ stuff – it never worked for me. I did do zero carb for a year and didn’t feel the best. I recovered from bulimia and anorexia over 4 years ago by doing low-carb, not zero carb and very important were supplements. No I detest the cult-ish taste of the ZC forum. It is awful. I read posts there but never post. Charles is unbelievable – all he has done is read a few books and thinks he knows it all – not exactly an authority by any means.
Mallory you look extremely thin – still emaciated. Suzanne is just as bad although since she started eating more fat and less exercise put on a bit of much needed weight. When I saw photos of her before I was shocked at all the bones poking out. That is not healthy by any standards, even if she isn’t purging.
It is not necessary to ‘go zero carb’ to recover from an eating disorder – I am proof of that. I think there is a big difference between zero carb and some carbs – you don’t have to eat a high carb diet either. Why not just eat say 50-100g of carbs?
I wish Mallory all the best in her recovery, but I doubt ZC is really going to help you (Mallory) get up to a healthy weight. But everyone must find their own way/answers.
I also think that food allergies come into play, and simply cutting out gluten/wheat stopped my binges cold. Obviously if you eat ZC you are probably avoiding all the foods like that, so it works.
All the best.
“I’m not saying that this was intentionally plannned out”
It was.
“I’ll say it. That whole thing read like one big scripted “let’s run Katelyn off once and for all” mess from the start”
Spot on. It was preplanned and very well orchestrated, guided and supported by The Leader, Charles, and all of his Mods, IMO.
“and now of course Kari is gone.”
Who can blame her? Kari was USED to get to Katelyn. Clearly Kari was just another conditioned/brainwashed subservient victim in that place. She was minding her own business in her ED thread until Charles and his Mods saw the “gap”, IMO.
“Those people don’t allow you to breathe there without permission if you’re new but that Kari chick was allowed to throw out threats and ultimatums as a hello introduction?”
Precisely. So see 2nd observation above.
“Mallory looks like she’s still anorexic to me.”
She will always be anorexic. Anorexics never get “cured”.
She however APPEARS to be moving in the right direction (I hope!).
“So does queen bee Suzanne. Especially her hair and skin.”
Just noticed one of her many comments in Mallory’s journal today: “You are still too skinny” or something to that extent, when in fact Suzanne is probably even skinnier than Mallory. Fortunately Mallory gave her a good scolding. Miracle that Mallory wasn’t banned for that! Wait, Mallory posts about successes only, that most probably “saved” her.
“On the other hand Katelyn’s hair and skin looks healthy and shiny.”
Agreed.
“Katelyn works in a law office so hopefully she is aware but if not many states are now going after cyber bullies hard. Her well documented treatment from those in charge there would certainly qualify as cyber bullying.”
Not only Katelyn’s case, but many others too. Start looking at around page 3 of the list of journals and see how many are now closed with a last comment left by The Leader.
Hmmm…
Went looking for Kari’s journal now. It went poof!! Unlike the others who got banned/left by choice, their journals only got closed. So now I’m almost convinced that something was happening behind the scenes. The thought makes me cringe.
That place is evil people!
Have also noticed how the ED forum has now become the place of choice to discuss the positives and negatives of several drugs, such as LSD, Coke, Mushrooms, Weed etc. Geez that place is fucked up! Do they realize that these things could be TRIGGERING???
To those of you who believe this was all intentionally orchestrated, I have to admit that you’re starting to convince me. Which makes the whole thing even more vile.
Hmmm again…
http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2961&page=7
Notice The Leader’s comment: “Just don’t call out any anorexics during your story!” with a LOL smiley at the end. WTF? Now the Katelyn/Kari catastrophe, orchestrated by himself, The Leader, and all of his disciples (IMO) has become a joke?? This man visibly and repeatedly supported the “Katelyn call out” in Kari’s thread, now it’s not cool anymore and he laughes about it.
Geez let me go read something else. The things going on there is just too disturbing, to put it mildly.
Ok, I’ve never had an ED, and I’m not a member of ZIOH. I am a lurker though. I’m a paleo/primal eater if anyone cares about that.
Kari is still there, she hasn’t gone anywhere, just the name on the thread has been changed. If you look, you can find it.
@Mallory, I’ve read your journal and your posts and think you’re making great progress with your life. You have a great attitude and have made a lot of positive changes. Keep at it.
No one is relegated to raw ground beef (that’s what Katelyn was eating, btw – no one told her to). Or just ground beef.
Some of your assertions are wrong. There’s plenty to criticize without saying stuff that’s not true.
That said –
What happened with Kari and Kately flabbergasted me. Obviously, Katelyn is troubled. I don’t think she eats enough. And I think she’s got some issues. HOWEVER, that’s not for Kari to decide or confront her with. Kari has her own issues to work out and I do think there was a fair amount of projection going on there.
The 60-day challenge, if given at all, should’ve been given by Charles, not Kari. I actually think it would’ve been a good idea for Katelyn. If she didn’t have a disorder, she could’ve shut everyone up. HOWEVER, the whole commital post was insane and totally beyond the beyonds. That’s something for your family to decide, not some person half a world away on the internet. Again, that was some serious projection.
And I think Charles is very wrong in some ways about exercise.
You are right in many of the things you say, but as I said, some of what you wrote simply isn’t true. This situation deserves criticism, but stick to the facts.
Hmmm again… (sorry but I’m stuck there LOL)
I cannot help but wonder where Kari got all the “inside info” from? She was afterall a NEW member. But in her thread everything she says about/to Katelyn indicates that she knows Katelyn, and has known her for quite some time, which cannot be the case unless she got “inside info” from elsewhere.
Case in point. When Kari posted the Katelyn restaurant “scenario”, Suzanne popped up and said that is “EXACTLY how you’ve behaved”, to Katelyn.
I cannot help feeling sorry for Katelyn and Kari for being subservient victims of The Leader and all of his disciples.
Okay, I will stop analyzing now 
Wow…wasn’t expecting to read good things about me here! Just popping into say i saw it and thank you. and Anon2 i agree you don’t cure anorexia, you just learn to manage it
@Anon2
You can get the “insider info” just by reading the threads/journals. Kari didn’t say anything about Katelyn I hadn’t read. No conspiracy, just crazy.
“Kari is still there, she hasn’t gone anywhere, just the name on the thread has been changed. If you look, you can find it.”
Nope. She’s gone. Look here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2317&page=144
Yes, her name got changed on her ED thread, which is still there, but there’s a little icon next to her changed name indicating that she’s away, indefinitely. And her journal went poof too.
“The 60-day challenge, if given at all, should’ve been given by Charles, not Kari.”
I’m of the opinion that it indeed was given by Charles, but Charles used Kari as a medium to put it forward. Again, abuse, IMO.
It is also my personal opinion that Kari left because everyone, especially The Leader and his disciples, turned on her when the going got tough, even though they had orchestrated the whole thing (IMO). Yet more proof that The Leader will turn on ANYONE.
“HOWEVER, the whole commital post was insane and totally beyond the beyonds. That’s something for your family to decide, not some person half a world away on the internet. Again, that was some serious projection.”
I don’t agree on the “projection” observation. Again, have another look at that thread and see how Charles commented on locating her gym, getting hold of her mother etc. (family intervention IMO). So as for “projection”? Nah, I don’t buy that one.
“SurvivorZC asked that their membership be removed for personal reasons.” Here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2921&page=40
“SurvivorZC” is of course “Kari”.
So to “Objective Observer” on here, who posted this:
“Kari is still there, she hasn’t gone anywhere, just the name on the thread has been changed. If you look, you can find it.”
and then this:
“You are right in many of the things you say, but as I said, some of what you wrote simply isn’t true. This situation deserves criticism, but stick to the facts.”
I’m now going to ask of you to stick to the facts too.
Um…An anonymous commenter referred me to this post…Not sure why…
But my two cents: Those people who are “recovering” but dwelling in this site? Not truly recovering. True recovery = no more restrictions. I think it’s weird that the moderators are not banning THAT.
Here is an internet forum thread that is also complaining of this ZIOH and calling for an investigation! Read on.
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/Is_this_place_another_ZC_site__about1746.html
I find it very perplexing that a man with this type of disdain for women would do this sort of thing, but, there are many disturbed individuals roaming the net these days, I guess.
Thank you for exposing this monster!
Ok, I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person, but could someone please give me a motivation for what happened to Katelyn? What was the goal? To get her off ZIOH? There were much, much easier methods for doing that that would have entailed no publicity. Send her an email and say she’s booted. Her posting privileges had been suspended a month or so ago; just link it to that somehow. Poof. Done.
So why the round-about method? Why involve a third party? Why issue a public 60-day challenge?
The simplest explanation in my mind is the one Charles gave: the moderators were worried about Katelyn and worried that newcomers would think she’s a good role model for ZC, but they didn’t see a good solution. Kari threw out an idea and they jumped on it; it was a way to force Katelyn to admit she had a problem, or force others to admit she didn’t and apologize to her. Where did Kari get info about Katelyn? Perhaps from her journal. There is a lot of information there.
Or it could be some bizarre conspiracy amongst Charles, Suzanne, and Kari, with logistic support from the Trilateral Commission. I’m not real either, just a front created by the ethanol producers, who we all know bankrolled the operation.
Re: the threat of commitment. The post was ambiguous, and bothered me. I wasn’t sure if it was Kari threatening to have Katelyn committed, or if it was a heads up that in a few years Katelyn’s family might decide to since she (allegedly) fit the criteria. I thought Kari meant the latter, and wrote to her, but didn’t get a response.
By the way, kudos to Mallory for offering to take part in the 60-day challenge alongside Katelyn, so she wouldn’t feel alone or on display. That was perhaps the only bright spot in this affair.
Or perhaps Mallory was part of the conspiracy too? (rolls eyes)
Thank you all for your comments. I learn something from each one of them. I don’t have the time to comment myself right now, just stealing moments between work to read and approve them. I just want you to know that I appreciate them.
Kari’s ‘story’ was way too out there to be believable. The rage ‘she’ directed at Katelyn was much too personal to have just come from some new interested bystander.
“The simplest explanation in my mind is the one Charles gave: the moderators were worried about Katelyn”
Only a handful of people there were genuinely concerned for Katelyn’s well being. The rest just didn’t like her personality or the fact that they were never able to force her to follow party line. Suzanne could not stand Katelyn and has wanted her gone for months. It’s funny though that she would constantly pick at Katelyn for posting about herself when in reality that is all Suzanne does herself. Read her comments to other people. They’ll say something and here comes Suzanne with a related story of her own to one up them.
“I find it very perplexing that a man with this type of disdain for women would do this sort of thing, but, there are many disturbed individuals roaming the net these days, I guess. Thank you for exposing this monster!”
What I find even worse is the fact that his biggest supporters ARE women. How low must your own self worth be if you can just sit back and continue to stroke a man who behaves the way he does? Sad, Sad, Sad.
Just found another “gem” which I suppose supports the Cult theory.
“When a member asks to leave, I grant them their wish” ~ Charles Washington
WTF? He “grants” them their wish?? Does a subservient cult member have to actually “ask” The Leader to leave?? And when he “grants them their wish”, does he open the locked gates for them?? WOW, just WOW.
“Ok, I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person, but could someone please give me a motivation for what happened to Katelyn? What was the goal? To get her off ZIOH? There were much, much easier methods for doing that that would have entailed no publicity. Send her an email and say she’s booted. Her posting privileges had been suspended a month or so ago; just link it to that somehow. Poof. Done.
So why the round-about method? Why involve a third party? Why issue a public 60-day challenge?”
I’ll try to give you a motivation for doing it the way it was done. Of course, only my personal opinion. To start, look here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2921&page=40
On that page, The Leader says: “[...] we welcome all the so-called “negative publicity.” We have received more members when these people get all worked up than you can imagine.[...]“.
So perhaps The Leader craves negative publicity in order to attract more people to his sick site. Doing it the easy way would not have given him this sick “opportunity”. IMO Kari’s call out on Katelyn (orchestrated by the powers in the cult) provided some sort of sick entertainment, which of course did cause many people to go and have a look. And by posting my observations on here (“negative publicity”) I’m actually HELPING that man!! OMG, I’m going to stop posting my opinions, based on observations immediately!
haha no no Mallory is part of no conspiracy, i really think something is wrong with Katelyn be it an eating disorder or something else and i didn’t want her to publicly have to do the experiment on her own, so i offered to do it with her, someone who refuses to just stop exercising for 60 days and stop the weird food rituals she had alongside only feeling “pure” with raw ground beef is grounds for some developing ED IMHO
I could be wrong but I think its possible Kari is what she said she is. She could have been given access to the inner sanctum’s hidden threads because Charles and the moderators liked her. Charles obviously favored her right away, and legalism was suspended for her. The hidden Katelyn threads and the eager participants there could have brought Kari up to speed quite quickly (manipulation). An intense primer on exactly what people were concerned about / hate about Katelyn could drive a person who is super-passionate about ED to feel compelled to leap into action to ‘save’ her. SurvivorZC’s account is locked, so if Kari is still there then she’s been given a new identity.
There’s a whole lot of nastiness in the hidden areas where the inner sanctum can talk freely about members.
Mallory, I’m sure you and a few others are good people who are truly concerned about Katelyn. However, I think the majority either didn’t like her, or got off on the drama of chasing her around in the guise of helping her.
“There’s a whole lot of nastiness in the hidden areas where the inner sanctum can talk freely about members.”
Isn’t it funny how people like Margo, Tooter (and other banned members) griped for months about how they were treated at LCF and about how they were locked out of threads when they were banned? Now many of them have become everything they whined about for months on end. They attack people like a pack of wolves and then retreat to members only areas to gloat.
“Mallory, I’m sure you and a few others are good people who are truly concerned about Katelyn”
I completely agree with this and I wish Mallory and anyone else there with a true ED nothing but the best. I’ve watched someone I love dearly struggle with anorexia for years. I know how difficult (and on going) the struggle is.
Mallory, can I ask you why you believe ZC will help you though? It is repeatedly stated on the site that people can’t gain weight on ZC. Over and over that statement is used to convince people who are worried about the amount of meat and fat they are eating. You need to gain weight how are supposed to do that on ZC?
“Mallory, can I ask you why you believe ZC will help you though? It is repeatedly stated on the site that people can’t gain weight on ZC. Over and over that statement is used to convince people who are worried about the amount of meat and fat they are eating. You need to gain weight how are supposed to do that on ZC?”
I love Mallory, but I would like to know the answer too. I think TigerLily has mentioned that Mallory has only gained 3lbs during the last year on ZC. Mal, do you really want to wait years and years and years for your period to return? I think your solution is waiting for you somewhere else, not on ZC, IMO. BTW I’m admiring you for giving it your best though, well done!
it’s very easy to hide behind ZC and claim you are in recovery. The very fact it is almost impossible to gain weight on ZC makes it obvious why it attracts anorexics, and the fact that it is acceptable to claim you are ‘doing it for health’ makes it even more appealing, as nobody is going to harass you for not eating enough etc. (apart from in the case of Katelyn it would seem). Of course you are eating lots of food, just nothing that is going to raise insulin enough to gain more than a few pounds of weight. What could be any more attractive to an anorexic?
My point is women need to be above a certain level of bodyfat in order to be fertile. ZC reduces insulin to such a level that if you are significantly underweight to begin with, it is not going to help you back to fertile levels (I’m talking about the level of bodyfat where menstruation resumes – around 18-19% I think, correct me if I am wrong).
That is how I see it anyway, and from what I see it is correct. Wandering around with ribs sticking out and claiming health is kind of funny in a sad way. I totally believe in low-carb eating, but why everybody thinks it has to be all or nothing beats me. The ZC crowd thinks in a very black and white manner, which suits the anorexic mind-set and is not particularly conducive to recovery from the mental aspects of the disease, at the very least.
Mallory go take some zinc tablets – they were a cure for me, along with a great diet. Sounds crazy but if you google some books on orthomolecular medicine zinc has been used with much success in treating anorexics. Diet alone is not a cure, and my guess is ZC won’t provide much for an anorexic apart from being able to eat more food.
sorry Mallory, I noticed you didn’t think that diet was a cure in any way for anorexia, but that it helped to manage it. There’s other things you can do apart from diet….
I like zero carb because i dont have to think about anything and it causes no anxiety in my head. it keeps me calm and even keel. its not perfect i hate having to do this diet the rest of my life, but it works, and carbs dont. there is no cure for anorexia. im not taking drugs of any sort EVER. i despise doctors and nutritionists and therapists of all kinds.
by the way, its not true you cant gain weight on zero carb, its easy once you learn it. the body burns glucose for fuel, when you switch to zero carb you go from burning glucose(which i think is the root of many disorders and diseases) to burning fatty acids which are capable of making the glucose needed for your brain, etc. once your body makes the switch to fatty acids its still the same ol same ol calorie counting thing but more is spared in a way i think. not everyone agrees with me on this but this is what i have found through my reading.
also i think grains, sugar in any form, fruit, and vegetable oils are all shit. they arent even food. the fruit you see is not at all what fruit should look like or taste like, and it is rather nutrientless. this is the same for veggies, which i dont really have a problem with despite the fact that they are grown in shitty soil, which produces shitty veggies, theyre 100% bigger than they should be, and you absorb less than 40% of the “health” in veggies… not to mention the human body is only recently adapting to enzyme disgesting capabilities for veggies… theres a reason you shit them out… and many veggies are much more toxic than youd believe in nature, but we have skewed that as well. AND- 99% of the veggies you see at your store NEVER existed until the advent of the agricultural revolution. do you really think “early man” came across a stalk of broccolli, a head of cabbaage, or a butternut squash?? NOOO… some other aninmal would eat it… i buy the random greens, seaweed, stuff like that and i think they had medicinal purposes in other oils, herbs, and things of the like..
but i really think the human body should process 99% of its food from animals, organs and eggs included
“… not to mention the human body is only recently adapting to enzyme disgesting capabilities for veggies… ”
Really? May I ask where you found that information?
Homo habilis, which lived from 2.3 to 1.6 million years ago, had striations on their teeth consistent with eating fruit and leaves. Homo erectus, which lived from 2 million to 400,000 years ago, had pits on their teeth, consistent with eating nuts, seeds, roots and tubers. An article discussing this is here.
Do you believe that these protohumans really didn’t eat vegetable matter? Or perhaps that they ate it because they were bored or starving? It seems odd that they would waste energy and tooth enamel on eating something they couldn’t digest.
Mallory zinc is not a drug, it is a mineral. It helped me immensely. I needed to take extra for a long time, even when eating a lot of meat. And I feel far better on a mixed eating plan (meat, veggies, fat, some nuts) than I ever did on meat/fat only – and still recovered – no bingeing or purgeing here for over 4 years. It CAN be done. Just saying, in case you ever think that ZC is the ONLY way for you, that I am proof that one doesn’t have to go to such extremes.
My problem with the ZC site is no questioning or experimenting is allowed – well, not if you want to stay there anyway and feel welcome. I prefer to think for myself thanks.
If you all are sick of that ZIOH site, but still want to eat rather carnivorously, there is a really cool site here:
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/
They seem to be into encouraging each person to experiment, and there is no group lording over others. It’s a pretty free-thinking bunch!
I stumbled upon this and Medusa’s website while trying to find ED’s success stories (I work at an ED unit).
My “voyeurism” took me to the ZC website and I was simply devastated. I am sure most of you realize that many of the people on that website have mental diseases. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but it’s also concerning. It is very irresponsible AND dangerous to have a “support group” with no one trained to be the leader. That would be like having a depressive disorder support group with no psychologist to lead it! It could lead to disastrous consequences. I don’t know if anyone here is a member of it, but I would strongly advice anyone to LEAVE. Leave for a healthier forum. I’m sure there must be a lot out there.
Now regarding the issuse of anorexia/ZC diet: substituting one eating disorder for ANOTHER is NOT the solution. You will not find ONE SINGLE EXPERT that will tell you that eating the suggested diet is good for people with eating disorders. So… who will you follow… expert in the subject or a website?
And eating a ZC is NOT healthy. People in the website keep quoting how “XYZ” population lived only on meat, etc, etc. That’s all good but what were the life expectancies? LOW. Inuit populations, for example, even when they had their fully traditional diet, had a low life expectancy. Yes you will probably survive if you eat meat all day but you will suffer the consequences 10 years or more from now.
Longitudinal research has shown OVER AND OVER that the diet that provides the best quality of life is a vegetable-based balanced diet, with lots of fiber. And there is not ONE sinble peer-reviewed paper on the safety or benefits of a zero-carb diet. I can’t imagine what the prevalence of colon cancer and stomach cancer will be for these people in 10 years after their “ZC diet”. I can definitely see it will be very high. I can also see how there will be a lot of consequences due to the lack of the many micronutrients they lack due to their diet.
To each it its own, so if you’d rather follow anecdotal evidence and pseudo-science rather than sound research then I guess it’s a free world!
“It is very irresponsible AND dangerous to have a “support group” with no one trained to be the leader. That would be like having a depressive disorder support group with no psychologist to lead it! It could lead to disastrous consequences. I don’t know if anyone here is a member of it, but I would strongly advice anyone to LEAVE. Leave for a healthier forum. I’m sure there must be a lot out there.”
COMPLETELY agree with this.
And, yes there are other more supportive groups to belong to.
For those who still believe in eating from the animal kingdom, but, not obsessing about it, read this. I find it rather refreshing, after seeing all the abusive crap over at ZIOH. CW has no clue. No science of any kind, but, he’s bamboozled many over there. Simply sad.
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about1371.html
Yes, there are alternatives.
Mallory, you seem like a brave young girl battling your disease but let me tell you, you are hugely misinformed.
First of all you need to realize that doctors and therapists are not “the enemy” despite bad experiencies that you might have had, and the fact that you view them as such is a sign that your illness is still very alive and kicking. In addition, at least based on the way you look, it is also obvious that ZC is NOT helping your disease. It might “trick yourself” into thinking you’re better because you’re eating “something” but you’re obviously not eating nearly enough.
Have you ever heard of “The Blue zones”? They’re the 5 regions of the world where people live not only the longest but the most active and healthiest. And guess what? People in those regions eat plant-based diets, and little animal protein.
I do agree with you that vegetables and fruits nowadays have less nutrients than 50 years ago (you can buy organic fruits and veggies which have better nutriotional content), but so does meat. Meat content varies a lot with the feed that animals are given. Nowadays animals are made to grow fast and fat ASAP so they use feed that helps that, but not the nutritional content of meat. For e.g. organic grass-fed beef (which VERY FEW people have access to) has more omega 3, CLA and way more vitamin E, calcium, and less fat (to name a few things, but there’s lots more). So basically you’re also eating “garbage meat” when you buy meat at your regular grocery store.
Your concept that “only recently human beings can digest fruits and veggies” is sorely wrong. As someone mentioned in a previous post, our ancestors were hunter-gatherers and thus consumed meat as well as fruits and vetegables and roots. The proportion of each depended on the geographical area as well as the time of the year. But one thing is for sure and that is that human beings were never carnivores. In addition, what does the fact that our ancestors did this or that have to do with anything?!?!?!? I would like to think that we have LEARNED with time and do things better now. So even if our ancestors hadn’t eaten any fruits and veggies, it still doesn’t seem right. They also get vaccinated but I’m sure all of us here did!
Finally, eating an animal-based diet is unsustainable and TERRIBLE for the environment. Simply speaking, if everyone had a animal-based diet, our world would be way more polluted than it is now, and more people would be starving than now. Producing a gram of animal protein is a lot more taxing to the environment than producing a gram of vegetable protein.
I don’t think you’re a mom yet and maybe you’re too young to understand this but I do want to do whatever I can to make sure my children are healthy and to make sure that I leave them with a less polluted world. So I choose to eat a plant-based diet with whole grains, fruits and vegetables not only because there’s ample, irrefutable scientific evidence that is’t the best diet one can eat, but also because I do not want to leave a huge environmental footprint.
I do hope you get better and help elsewhere and not on a website with no one from the medical field, no nutritionist and whoe “idol” is a convicted felon with no knowledge of nutrition whatsoever (he’s a sound engineer or something like that for crying out loud!) who’s mostly famous for manufacturing LSD!
Ugh, Allforhealth. Please read The Vegetarian Myth if nothing else to dispel your myths on human diet. No, Mallory does not need a rabbit food diet, thank you very much. Mal, branching out will give you more experience. You can be a carnivore and add a few other things in if you want or need for YOUR recovery. We are all individuals and don’t need the ZC Police watching every move we make Heck, liver has carbs, so it’s not like you are zero (which is an ideal like veganism imho). I am a dirty carnivore myself. It’s not the diet that is bad, it is the environment at that place that is so oppressive.
Allforhealth!
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Gotta love these vegans!
You are mixing up Charles Washington (who might BE a convicted felon! Wouldn’t surprise most people.) with Bear. LOL! I think Mal’s idol is CW, not Bear.
Anyway, check out Bear’s Words of Wisdom.
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about63.html
IMO, this guy knows a lot more than you do on what is optimal human health.
BTW… you should educate yourself on what will really help the environment… and that is turning it back to what it once was, grazing herbivores, not growing more grains like Cargill and Monsanto are doing. They are the ones destroying the planet!
http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/
Here’s another must read.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280191.shtml
Please educate yourself a bit further.
Peace
Allforhealth,
The best way to help the environment would be to turn most of the land back over to grazing land for herbivores… rather than growing more grain as Cargill and Monsanto are doing. They are the ones destroying the environment in a big way.
http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/
Here’s another article that sheds more light on the wonderful agricultural revolution.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280191.shtml
Please educate yourself a bit more.
Peace
Actually, I’m not vegan. I’m an omnivore in excellent health who’s very conscious about eating animals. I do it both for health reasons and environmental reasons.
I wasn’t confusing Owsley Stanley with Charles Washington. I was merely pointing to the fact that their poster boy for health (“oh, look he’s been eating only meat and eggs for years and he’s super healthy”) and the one who’s considered the “founder” of the ZC movement is just a hyppie with no medical training whatsoever. But not, definitely not confusing the 2!
BTW,yeah I’m sure that he knows more about nutrition than I do. After all, while he was doing LSD I was in Med School, so what do I know!
Secondly, he had throat cancer which does not seem the “healthy image” that I have in mind.
Thirdly, it is not surprising that he has ZERO references to his claims. I can also make up a bunch of stuff and post it in a forum like it’s a fact. I would hope that people that read me would check the facts before taking my word.
Now if you do a quick search in medline, you will find the many benefits of plant-based diets. I also mentioned the diets of the people on the blue zone and all the medical research that has been done with them.
For e.g. in Forum Nutr. 2003;56:218-20, the abstract states:
“Numerous studies show important and quantifiable benefits of the different components of vegetarian diets, namely the reduction of risk for many chronic diseases and the increase in longevity. Such evidence is derived from the study of vegetarians as well as other populations. While meat intake has been related to increased risk for a variety of chronic diseases, an abundant consumption of vegetables, fruits, cereals, nuts, and legumes all have been independently related with a lower risk for several chronic degenerative diseases, such as ischemic heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and many cancers. Hence, whole foods of plant origin seem to be beneficial on their own merit for chronic disease prevention.”
You want to follow the advise of an LSD manufacturer? Then be my guest. I’d rather follow sound medical research.
Same thing with the “Vegetarian myth”. Should I follow a woman who went to her Qi Gong instructor who told her that her health problems were due to not eating meat, or should I follow science? The answer for me is clear. And as I have already said, I’m not advocating vegetarianism but a plant-based diet who has A LOT of research behind that is healthy and contributes to longevity and good health.
Now show me ONE article in a medical journal that says that a carnivore diet increased the life expectancy and health of a population.
To each its own.
If ZC is so great, then why are you still stick thin Mallory? I mean that in the nicest way – seriously, just because it isn’t working for you. Plant-based diet? Get serious, ED sufferers need zinc, not more copper to add to the problem (which is what will happen if you eat vegetarian).
I don’t think anybody is eating much of any organ meats over on the ZC forum. If for some reason I was forced to eat ZC I would definitely eat organ meats. Charles knows bugger-all about nutrition, and I can tell you that most of the vits/mins in organs are the ones that humans need that are missing from muscle meat.
Mallory knows that ZC diet will bring down insulin levels. Mallory you say that it is possible to gain weight on ZC, but really that hasn’t happened to you, and most people are losing even on high calorie counts. How on earth is that going to be conducive to recovering from anorexia? You seriously need to gain weight, and ZC isn’t providing that. That would be the bottom line if it was me. Do you never want to have children? Are you willing to sacrifice fertility for dieting?
“While meat intake has been related to increased risk for a variety of chronic diseases, an abundant consumption of vegetables, fruits, cereals, nuts, and legumes all have been independently related with a lower risk for several chronic degenerative diseases,”
Hey, Allforhealth!
I wonder. Do you buy every study, no matter who it was funded by? One example. In the UK the National Health Service conducted studies that showed many pharmaceuticals being used to treat depression were actually causing suicide rates to increase among those who were taking them. Meanwhile, in the US, studies were found that showed the opposite. The NHS was wanting to find what was working for funding reasons. Big Pharma, on the other hand, conducted (and funded) their research for the opposite reason. They wanted to increase their mega profits.
Whose interests does the USDA want to protect? Sadly, it’s multinationals like Cargill and Monsanto who want to take grazing land away from small groups all over the planet, disrupting the cultural and ecological landscape in the process. Talk about destroying the environment!
http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280191.shtml
Please consider some other ideas.
Mallory, thanks for answering the questions some of us posted here. I looked at your blog and your story deserves to be heard/told. I think at some point you are going to need to gain some weight but reading your story and seeing how far you’ve come in your head shows that that is even more important than where the body weight needs to go. I wish you nothing but the best in your journey.
Allforhealth! wrote: “Secondly, he had throat cancer which does not seem the “healthy image” that I have in mind.”
He also had coronary artery disease and had either a coronary bypass or angioplasty (I can’t remember which).
I think there are a lot of dangerously misinformed people on the ZIOH board, not only with respect to nutrition but also psychology. Starting up that eating disorders forum with the guise of helping people and yet allowing that kind of bullying to occur shows their folly. I can’t imagine too many other people are going to want to “come out” now after seeing what happened to Katelyn.
That being said, I have nothing but admiration for Mallory. She seems to have figured out what kinds of foods trigger her dysfunctional thought patterns and by avoiding them has been able to calm her mind and put on quite a bit of weight. Yes, she is still very thin but she no longer looks anorexic, you can see her face filling out and she certainly has a healthy glow. A zero carb carnivorous diet can provide all the nutrition she needs, especially if she is eating organ meats and/or eggs.
What I admire most about Mallory is her openness in discussing her anorexia and her willingness to reach out and help other people. All without being a pompous, self-satisfied, smug know-it-all, like many of the other “helpful” people on the ZIOH board. She’s going to be fine.
Thank You all for the comments, i really appreciate it. Yes, mentally i have come a long way from where i was. i plan to blog a post from an old journal i kept soon when i get the guts to hit post. it is very disturbing to say the least but it does provide a glimpse at how far i have come. i once weighed 87 lbs and now am 118. that’s the right direction if you ask me. yes, i plan on kids one day, yes i eat livers and eggs almost every other day, no i do not think veggies or fruits are necessary, and ALLFORHEALTH, youre just annoying- please, do some research. Joseline, that’s great you dont think my recovery is anything any sort of “conventional” treatment would offer because that is my whole point. your little feeding tube pumps of metabolic wards for anorexia are bullshit to say the least and they dont work. im sure working in an ED clinic your MORE THAN aware of the relapse in anorexia, or the anorexic-turned-binger or bulimic…that won’t be me.
i never ever claimed that ZC will or does give me perfect optimal health, but its a damn site better than the health i got at 87 pounds. optimal health probably isnt in the cards for me, look at my past. i suffered horrendous anorexia from ages 18-22…it will take a damn site longer than that for me to get better. i know what works, and if my body wants to stay at this weight with the promise of a workable and livable mind/brain…then so be it
Mallory is being told to get real help because Suzanne says the board doesn’t know what to do with ED peeps. Weren’t they slobbering all over themselves telling Kate how she can fix herself with the 60 day challenge?
Mallory, I read that you are having an awful time right now. I’m sorry – I hope that you can step back, take a deep breath, and get your bearings again. A day or two of what you consider awful bad food choices doesn’t have to lead to a spiral of bad emotions or reactions. You are in charge of you. Big,warm, squeezey hugs to you!
Deker, sorry for not posting your comments from Jan 18th. The two links made them end up in the spam box and I didn’t see them until now. I just posted your last comment, as they seemed somewhat redundant (probably because they never appeared here).
Anon, you are so right with the sudden change wrt to ED’s. Perhaps they are afraid of a possible lawsuit if something goes wrong? As far as I can see there isn’t any medical disclaimer anywhere on that board.
I know nothing about ED’s so I can not advice what the best approach would be for Mallory. I wish her the best and that she can overcome the ED demons.
What went on there is disgusting. Another member jumped the ship over it and Charles really lost his cool. Need some popcorn and soda for this!
Many members who left ZIOHell are here, recovering from their experiences and banding together:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=404456&page=1&pp=30
“Mallory is being told to get real help because Suzanne says the board doesn’t know what to do with ED peeps. Weren’t they slobbering all over themselves telling Kate how she can fix herself with the 60 day challenge?”
You should reread the thread. The purpose of the challenge wasn’t to “fix” Katelyn. The argument, which you don’t have to agree with, was that if she had an ED she couldn’t do the challenge; if she didn’t have one she could. In other words, it was purely diagnostic and not therapeutic.
“BTW,yeah I’m sure that he knows more about nutrition than I do. After all, while he was doing LSD I was in Med School, so what do I know!” To be fair, he was arrested for *making* LSD, which implies more knowledge and intelligence than just being a user. As far as your claiming knowledge of nutrition by virtue of having attended medical school, well, enough said. It was worth a chuckle though. Owsley strikes me rather bright self-educated individual, whose done well in a variety of tasks. I’d pick him over an average MD any day of the week. Then again, I’d probably pick a magic 8-ball over most MDs.
joe
Regarding Katelyn:
What Katelyn wrote at ALC today is indicative of what the mods were concerned with when it came to influencing other members IMO. Particularly new members. Anyone think the mindset below is healthy? Never mind if it indicates an ED. But is this the mindset of a healthy individual?
“Hey, Marn, good to see you. I’m the opposite. I’m too perfectionist or rigid to ever have a binger personality. My downfall would be restriction. I am too uptight, frankly, to ever eat off whatever plan I’m on or binge because I like ‘control.’
What works for me is limits that I can work within. Having too large of a variety overwhelms me. That is why I stick to raw ground beef and one or rare cuts when I am out. I make progress when I don’t have the stress of too many choices. I cannot tell you what a relief it is to every day know what I’m eating and when. It might be boring and overly restrictive to some, but for me it is fantastically freeing and let’s me concentrate on other things. Not to mention that I’ve been my most successful when I’ve done this, instead of listen to what others have suggested by not being “me” and doing more variety, mixing things up, etc.”
@anon3: “Anyone think the mindset below is healthy? Never mind if it indicates an ED. But is this the mindset of a healthy individual?”
It’s as healthy as a bunch of people who think eating only meat and drinking water is healthy. Within that stratum (of meat/water only) there exists a natural range of flexibility/rigidity. Some eat different types of meat. Some eat one type of meat. Some eat many times a day. Some eat once per day. Some eat cooked. Some eat raw.
Preference is driven by personality. You suggest that a rigid personality is an unhealthy personality. Wow, get out much in the real world?? Rigid personality types abound; where it becomes a problem is when a rigid person attempts to control others. Sound like anybody you might know from that other forum?
Katelyn doesn’t appear to try to control anybody. She looks healthy, seems happy, is gainfully employed, and has friends. So, what’s the problem??
@Anon:”So, what’s the problem?”
Control does not have to be direct. It can be indirect control via influencing others. Constantly talking about eating only raw hamburger, only eating at one time of day, and weighing all her meals in order to limit the amount she was eating. How is that healthy?
She posted so frequently people on that forum thought she was one of the moderators according to one post I saw. She constantly replied to others about how she ate as if that was the only way to eat. If that is not trying to control someone then I don’t know what is.
Anon3, I think there’s more than one way to look at it but I can see where you’re coming from regarding Katelyn’s food posts.
As for responding to every post, most forums have some people like that. Usually they are people who are enthusiastic and like to participate, not take over.
I’m curious about why people aren’t using the names they use in other places instead of variations of anon.
@Anon3:
A light goes on! I think I get what you’re saying, and thanks for clarifying.
The mods were concerned their weak-minded forum members would be negatively influenced by the posts of ONE MEMBER, to the exclusion of all other members’ input (Charles included), and take up Kate’s way of ZCing.
You’re also saying the forum members had difficulty with reading comprehension as they were being led to believe Kate was a moderator even though every post by the Real Mods and other members made it clear this wasn’t so.
It’s a good thing they finally were able to get it all under control and save the day by discrediting her with the label Eating Disordered, beat her about the head and shoulders with that for many months, and for the grand finale imply she should be institutionalized, right before kicking her off the board.
Makes total sense to me.
I have heard it said that paying members were not banned from ZIOH. Isn’t it true, however, that some accounts were disabled, even for a few of paid supporting members?
Is this not, in essence, the same as being banned? Lack of access, not being able to log in…
Is there some creative English taking place over here?
@anon: If what you say is even remotely true then why all the concern? Intelligent people will decide to stay or go. Which makes this entire blog post totally useless and pointless.
@OYB: The anonymity makes for a good discussion as w/o it all one gets is a bunch of ad hominem attacks usually.
Prior member: the latest “rules” as given by Dana are:
“If an inactive member is a support member, they will not be deleted from membership. In case nobody noticed, we have purged over 1000 members since October! Only members who were support members were not purged for inactivity, or no journaling.
The way it is now, if they(new registrants) do not agree to a journal they cannot become a member. If they cannot become a member then how are they to become a support member?
The date of change? Late October/ November (OMG is this really important?!), the changes are still ongoing.
Why is this such an issue?! ”
I guess you made the mistake of actually posting.
I guess it means he belongs to the Kimmer school of vocabulary.
Purging doesn’t mean banning, even if the results are the same. No matter what, I’m still out the $$$.
Anon posting doesn’t prevent ad hominem attacks. It just makes it easier for snipers to hide while named people have to stand behind what they say.
I am going to reverse myself on the anonymous posting thing. It’s a personal decision. Posting anonymously here doesn’t necessarily mean someone is expecting attacks from HERE. I find regulars here to be quite reasonable except when asked to swallow contradictions.
Anon said:
“The mods were concerned their weak-minded forum members would be negatively influenced by the posts of ONE MEMBER, to the exclusion of all other members’ input (Charles included), and take up Kate’s way of ZCing.
You’re also saying the forum members had difficulty with reading comprehension as they were being led to believe Kate was a moderator even though every post by the Real Mods and other members made it clear this wasn’t so. ”
So true. I find it demeaning towards the members. Assuming that they will not be able to distinguish between a member and a “forum staff” when it’s clearly indicated under the poster’s name on every post.
Assuming that someone that, for example, needs to lose 100 pounds and is 20 years older than Katelyn would actually try to adopt the diet Katelyn follows.
ZIOH was never a “pay” site, to my knowledge. There was an option for voluntary donations, but never a requirement.
visitor said: “ZIOH was never a “pay” site, to my knowledge. There was an option for voluntary donations, but never a requirement.”
That is true, but the special treatment of “support members” made it seem that your donation had some value on the forum. Access to the hidden support forum, and “support member” displayed in your profile.
If the two are independent of each other, why have a special member category for people that donated?
Also, too, remember that ZIOH has maintained that Supporting Members were not banned. This is untrue since by the very nature of disabling accounts, this is the same as banning.
Here is a free Carnivore board you don’t have to pay for. Nobody ever asks for donations from the members. It’s also a pretty free thinking place from what I’ve read so far.
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/
Nice blog, BTW.
When I wrote in my journal that I could no longer remain at that forum, Charles “unregistered” me within MINUTES, and locked my journal. It made my wonder what he was afraid of!
When I questioned him as to why I was banned without a warning, he said (among other things) that he was “only granting my wishes”! Who does he think he is, my fairy godmother?! LOL He then deleted my journal.
Disabling accounts is the same thing as banning. They just don’t use that word.
I post anonymously because I have been the victim of cyber stalking in the past. At one point, I was considering becoming a member of ZIOH but after reading for a few days I became disturbed by the behavior of the owner, the moderators and the gang of “enforcers.” I’m actually doing ZC but have no interest in joining that type of community.
I’m a nobody as far as “ad hominem” attacks are concerned, nobody there or here knows me. I do have a master’s degree in counseling psychology, an MFC licence, and have treated some people with eating disorders although that is not my area of expertise. But I can say without equivocation that ZIOH is playing with fire, ethically and perhaps even legally.
One thing is Being Carnivorous and another one is being part of that cult, ZIOH.
I suffer from ED, i am carnivorous and i absolutely hate ZIOH, they area cult; i mean have you read? many members are so smart and try explaining something and their leader just come shut them up saying “Nope, you are wrong, I’m right and stop having your own opinions cause I’m your leader” It’s insane.
As i said Carnivorism is a different thing. Since started I’m almost free from binges, i now EAT without regrets, i just worry about food when eating so I NOW CAN LIVE MY LIFE, I can enjoy friendship, family, I’m not longer upset, i haven’t got any mood swings, I ACTUALLY put some weight on (and want skinny to begin with) and It is OK for me cause I’m not bingeing, im not out of control.
After 10 years trying EVERYTHING to beat my anorexia and bulimia, ZC came and solved almost everything overnight…. Is it another Eating disorder? Maybe!!! But life is short, if it gives me freedom, improves my quality of life and gives me the time to worry about other things, so i guess it is worth it….
PS. This “ZC ED” allowed me to eat a pizza with my flatmates (btw I had already ate) yesterday, I ate mostly the meat at the top but also half of the crust and IT’S OK cause now I’m free… I’d normally go and purge and fast the following days but now it’s ok, I’ll just keep going with my carnivorism and I’m in peace with myself…. Is that too bad? Come on people Don’t be cynic
I am so impressed by the people who have dared to take a stand against this on their forum. As Charles frequently says, speech is free but ‘not without consequences’. It’s really dangerous to challenge the group-think there.
I am sad that more people haven’t taken a stand, but I can understand their reluctance. It’s like the people at KK who just wanted to keep their heads down and not lose contact with their friends if they were to get banned for speaking up. Staying, and allowing this stuff to happen, is contributing to the succes of the site, unfortunately.