Pure Zero Carb Diet

The Leader at ZIOH calls his version of Zero Carb, a “Pure Zero Carb” diet. It’s not really clear what this is anymore as the diet advice on ZIOH is constantly changing. Previously, the recommendations followed what the Leader presently was eating but the last couple of days, mere members have gotten more of a voice.

This may be a result of the recent meet-up they had, or more likely, a result of the huge exodus of long time members from that forum. Perhaps The Leader decided that he didn’t want to be as strict and exclusive as earlier in order not to end up without any members at all.

The “ground beef only” diet being the key for “successful” zero carbers is no longer pushed. Neither is the “ideal food” pemmican. Other types of meat and even eggs are discussed. They don’t even openly frown on people taking supplements or exercising any more. Big changes, indeed!

But the core of “pure zero carb” is still there. The Leader has not changed his opinion that muscle meat from beef will provide all nutrition you need, indefinitely.

Here is a quote by The Leader:

Most people don’t know about pemmican and that’s primarily the reason why people don’t understand ZC. It is entirely based on pemmican and the way beef, fat and water sustained thousands of people for thousands of years without vegetable matter. To be ZC, one would be very wise to understand all aspects of pemmican. NBBA is a must-read to understand why we feel we get all the nutrients necessary for excellent health from muscle meat alone.

“NBBA” stands for Not By Bread Alone by The Leader’s idol Stefansson. How you can draw the conclusion that “muscle meat alone” is sufficient from that book is a mystery to me.

The Leader insists that there is one group of Inuits that eat nothing else than caribou; the Mackenzie Inuits. But that’s not what Stefansson says. From the book (page 22):

I might tell you, correctly, that the chief food of a certain group of Eskimos with whom I lived was caribou meat, with perhaps 30 per cent fish, 10 per cent seal meat, and 5 or 10 per cent made up of polar bear, rabbits, birds, and eggs.

It is true that, according to Stefansson, these Inuits ate exclusively caribou for months at a time. I think this was common for other peoples as well; the food source depending on season and supply with very little variety for long periods of time. Perhaps that is why the human body has the ability to store essential vitamins. However, the storage will not last indefinitely and would need to be replenished at some point in time.

But even during the period they ate only caribou, they didn’t limit themselves to “muscle” meat. The head was a favored part, especially the fat behind the eyes and the tongue. Kidneys were also eaten.

Further according to Stefansson, this particular group on Inuits even ate vegetable and berries. About berries, he said:

Some vegetable foods were eaten because the Mackenzie River people liked them. These were chiefly berries; and among berries chiefly the salmon berry or cloudberry

The other source The Leader uses for his argument is Stefansson’s Bellevue experiment where he claims that the two subjects ate “2 pounds sirloin per day.”

This is just plain false. They ate:

The experiment started smoothly with Andersen, who was permitted to eat in such quantity as he liked such things as he liked, provided only that they came under our definition of meat—steaks, chops, brains fried in bacon fat, boiled short-ribs, chicken, fish, liver and bacon.

Which is equivalent to 2 pounds of sirloin with regards to the proportion of fat versus lean.

We averaged about a pound and a third of lean per day and half a pound of fat (this is about like eating a two pound broiled sirloin with the fat such a steak usually has on it).

I fail to understand how this can be compared to eating “muscle meat” only. In addition, the experiment lasted for one year. Even though they were found to be in perfect health at the end on the one year, there is nothing to say that any deficiencies would not have showed up later if they had continued the same diet.

Finally, the Leader holds himself up as proof that “muscle meat only” is perfectly healthy as he has allegedly eaten muscle meat only for two years. If you want to base YOUR heath and YOUR life on this unverified “proof,” go ahead. Personally, I think some skepticism, questioning and looking at other opinions is a good thing.

A good resource is the website Satya put up: Dirty Carnivore. Satya is one of the many very knowledgeable former members of ZIOH that didn’t fully agree with the Leader. If you are considering a Zero Carb or Very Low Carb diet, check it out!

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Suzanne, there are millions of people taking care of aging and dying parents, millions suffering from infertility (at least you have one child) but they don’t get to do it from the lap of luxury like you do. Whatever your excuses, that still doesn’t give you a free pass to treat people as badly as you do while claiming you have turned over a new leaf.

If what you say about Carolina is true, it happened a while ago. Why did you wait until she left ZIOH to take pot shots at her, on threads where she could not respond? Wouldn’t it have been more mature to discuss your issues with her in private? Whether you or any of the people here dislike Carolina, even if that dislike is warranted, it’s immaterial. You still are behaving inappropriately and immaturely.

I never said I had in “bad.” I actually said I have an amazing life and thank God for what I have everday. I was just pointing out that I tend to post about the fun parts of my life, not the bad. There are many people who have it much worse than me. I have my health, to me the is my priority.
Actually, what happened with Carolina happened very recently. I was not going to bring it up, but you were the one who dragged it up here.
She can respond here. I did discuss it with her and she showed no remorse. I lost all respect for her at that point.
And I never claimed that I turned over a new leaf. I am who I am, I have good and bad points. I did learn something from what happened, yes. But, I am still a very direct person. I still speak my mind. Carolina made her choices. Why not call her out on all the private conversations she had with Katelyn and then posted about them?
And, I was USED by Carolina , so yes, I am lashing out on this one. She lived and worked in the US illegally for years, that should have tipped nme off that she was not an honest person.

Poor Carolina – are people missing the point with her? Here is a woman who has not been cured of obsessing about food – even just eating meat and fat etc. Wasn’t that the point of zero carb? How can people not see what is really going on? It is not her fault – was it ‘your’ fault you got bulimia? Or binge eating disorder? (I’m talking the collective you for those who have suffered from these). It’s obvious from what you have all said that whatever she is doing eating wise is not working for her physiologically if she is still obsessing about food all day.

If an eating plan works – as a low-carb/zc one usually does to reduce unreasonable hunger, then it happens naturally without forcing it. Obviously this has not happened to Carolina, and yet she is being attacked.

Sorry, that was about the food, not the other stuff, which sounds terrible (the stealing etc.) just to make that clear.

Loopy, do you know what my main issues with Carolina are? Lots of people have tried to help her with her weightloss issue, but for the most part she was rude and lied to lots of these people, and she is also very two-faced (I have received quite a few PM’s from Carolina whilst being a member of ZIOH). She even started her very own ED thread over at ZIOH about how ZC has “cured” her ED. Why lie? Hence I’m not THAT surprised when I read what Suzanne has to say about her.

If Carolina still has an ED, and I believe she does, people should not enable her and she should seek professional help, instead of moaning and bitching about her weight almost everyday (even started a blog!) pretending (lying) her excessive meat and fat consumption is not at fault. Her post regarding only eating 1 300 calories a day first had me concerned about her inability to lose weight, but then I looked at the bigger picture and realized she was lying. This has happened long before Suzanne started mentioning other things about Carolina.

If people want to lie publicly, they should not complain when people attack their lies publicly. She cannot defend her lies anymore over at ZIOH, but she’s free to do it on here. In fact, I think she has posted on here one or twice iirc.

Lol, from CW’s journal today:
“I’m loving our drama-free forum these days, I have to tell you. It’s very easy to keep up with all your journals and to see how you are all doing. One page of journals is always easier than 2 or 3.”

Translation: ZIOH is dead.

True, A. Nonny Mouse. It also means people have learned to keep silent about things that will get them trounced on or their memberships revoked.

So if CW likes a drama free forum, why is he saying things like he did today:
“from what I’ve heard, practically all of those who left here after feeling “trapped,” have now graduated into full-blown carbohydrates or alcohol abuse.”

Could it be some jealousy regarding the instant success of the DC forum? While his own is getting smaller every day? Despite all the “free publicity” he has gotten here, I don’t see a lot of new members flocking to his site.

Good point, OYB. Hard to believe that adults put up with being treated like that.

mariasol, he says things like that because it’s the only way he can justify people leaving his *wonderful* forum and *perfect* WOE. They have to be cake-eating, liquor-swilling losers in his mind, otherwise the implications for him are too frightening.

It’s jealousy, plus a lot of good old denial. And rather cowardly too, taking swipes at people who have left and aren’t there to defend themselves. Not that they care to any more, they have moved on to a much better place.

Suzanne has left ZIOH. Apparently she has learned that CW will turn on ANYONE.

So much for ZIOH remaining drama-free. Charles picked a big fight with Suzanne and now she has supposedly left. It started on Kelly’s journal and then continued on Suzanne’s. Charles even documented the whole fight including PMs here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=3031&pid=204184#pid204184

I can’t believe he is so pig-headed that he wouldn’t realize right from the beginning that he was really stepping in it! What a jerk, no wonder his wife hated him. The sad thing is, he’s documenting this fight to prove how right he was about everything, not in the least as an apology to Suzanne for his asinine behavior – even though he claims he wants to maintain the “friendship.”

They have some sick friendships on that forum.

Sorry, as a mother of 3 with the youngest 12 and the oldest 21, I am solely in Charles camp on this one. I have been babysitting a 4 month old latley. Piece of cake compared to what I have to deal with with the older ones. Babies sleep, you feed them and change them. Rock them when they cry. Suzanne just seems spoiled with her manicures and spa dates so of course a baby might seem like work to her. Surprised she did not hire a nanny.
Too bad that she left ZIOH. Now she will be spreading her nastiness in other forums

In my opinion this had nothing to do with whether it’s easier to have babies or teens. CW chose to attack Suzanne as a person; having just one child (like if that were by choice), spoiling that child, not having to work. And he is supposed to be her friend?

I never said that older children were harder than babies. I have never been the mother to a teenager, how could I comment on that?
I also have never had more than one child as I continually remind people cannot have more children. I am infertile. But, I cannot even begin to imagine how much work multiple children would be.
My point was, that in my house, having a baby was a lot more work for me than my husband. Andrew was with me 24-7, as he nursed and did not take a bottle.
Trust me, there were no manicures, spas or anything like that when Andrew was a baby, lol. I barely had time to take a shower.
I would never have hired a nanny. I chose not to work because I could not be away from my child for any amount of time. I felt physically ill apart from Andrew. I did not even like relatives holding him too long. I wanted him with me all the time. I would NEVER let a stranger watch or care for my child, let alone a baby.
Now, back to my point, it is here somewhere, lol.
So, I spent all my time with Andrew , even when I was not physically with him, I was worried about him. My husband did not have this, he went to work, went out with his friends. His life continued the same after Andrew as before Andrew.
Mine did a 180.
And yes, being with andrew was my choice. A choice I would make again.
But, these are my personal choices. I do not judge anyone as a parent. If you hire a nanny and that is what works for you, go for it. Daycare or no daycare, again , a personal choice.
I did not appreciate him forgetting I could not have another child and acting like it was no big deal. I have talked extensively about my infertility and my IVF’s to try for another child. I have talked about the pain of not having more children.
I also did not like the implication that I was a spoiled brat. I can understand people who do not know me thinking that based on what they read. But, he has met me, I thought he understoff me better than that.
I thought he was my friend and he chose to attack my personality and my parenting. I never said a word about his parenting or told him what to do.

Exactly, mariasol. I don’t care for Suzanne’s spoiled brat attitude either, but I don’t pretend to be her friend. And her comment had nothing to do with what Charles twisted it to supposedly mean. He does that kind of “debating” often, twists what another person says so that he can argue against the new meaning and “win.” It’s a sign of his intellectual deficits.

Whether one agrees with Charles or not about babies vs. teens is not the point. The point is that Charles was crass and cruel and viciously attacked a supposed friend.

Why am I a spoiled brat? Because I get manicures? Come on, lots of women get manicures and do the same types of things I do.

Come, come. CW got fired from his job, left his wife, has destroyed the forum he tried to build and now attacks all of the members and pretty much forces them to leave.

Is that the sign of a stable man?
Hell no!
It’s best to get out and find your own way before some hateful creature such as he, tries to bring your self esteem down.
And for the rest of you, RUN!
There are better forums that ZIOH.

Agree with Lois. Such a shame that she’s started a journal over at ALC. I hope that her being there doesn’t end up spoiling it for the rest of us.

Please, I am one person. You really think I am so evil and powerful that I can spoil an entire message board? LOL I cannot even get my son to sit still at the dinner table, you guys give me too much credit regarding my influence.
Plus, Leah, I have been posting at ALC for YEARS. If I have not destroyed it the past several years, I doubt me having a journal there will bring the whole house down.
Talk about dramatic!
Just do not read my posts, it is that simple.

I believe that Suzanne will enhance ALC. She has much to offer and she isn’t small minded. She thinks big and has great experience. They have welcomed her with open arms. Get over your small mindedness little CW, Leah. :)

Suzanne had been supportive of CW and his efforts with the forum from day one as well as having welcomed him into her home and he still chose to turn on her. Showing yet again any potential new people, this person is not someone you want to put a whole lot of your trust in. As Olivia said above – run, run, run in the opposite direction.

Whatever any of us might think of ZC as a WOE, Suzanne was arguably the most successful female posting on that forum. He loves to brag about how successful they are there. Even if he couldn’t play nice with her as a friend what in the world was he thinking running off one of the few shining examples he had posting there?

“Plus, Leah, I have been posting at ALC for YEARS.”

No you haven’t, unless there are two different ALCs or you were posting under another name. Your earliest posts are in fall of ’08. That ain’t “years.”

I’ve also got to comment on the big white elephant in the room that no one on ALC (not sure about other forums) wants to mention, Suzanne. There are many of us with (or recovering from) EDs, and it’s glaringly obvious to us that you’ve done the old bulimic trick of swapping bulimia for anorexia. I know how much easier it is to restrict to ketosis than to moderate. Been there, done that, ate the T-shirt. It’s that great goal we all aspire to: being underweight, eating just enough that everyone stays off our backs, and having a functional life.

Now I know I’m being extremely presumptive here. Your medical state is your business, and so is your choice to engage in whatever behaviors. If it’s true that you’re “free” of bulimia, great. But you should play the lottery because that would make you one in a million. The perception others have of you is that you’re no different from many other disordered people in denial, and if that’s the case, I’d encourage you to be a little more honest instead of painting ZC or any other WOE (ZC isn’t the issue) as “freedom” when it’s more like methadone.

I truly have compassion for you and I have no issue with you. I haven’t even followed you much because I’m not ZC. Please take this to heart. I’m thinking of young girls who might read your posts and try to emulate you, because you’re underweight and “cured”.

Well, I am not underweight and I do not restrict my eating at all. I actually tend to eat so much food that many people think I am bulimic because how could someone my size eat so much?
All my medical tests confirm perfect health. I get a period as well.
You think I do not know how lucky I am? To be free from bulimia? Trust me, I get on my knees daily to thank God for than gift. I still cannot really believe it myself.
I never claimed that zc would cure everyone from bulimia. In fact, most of the people I know from the boards find lc or zc helps with their ED, but not many seem to have the instant success that I did.
However, I have been very honest. I never said I just did zc and life got better. I had a child. This changed me. I wanted to be free from bulimia so badly. I put all my love for Andrew into overcoming bulimia. I also prayed every single day for God to help me. A lot went into my recovery and still does.
If you follow my journal you would see that I know a lot went into helping me overcome bulimia.
My heart goes out to all who suffer from ED and I hope they find the path that leads them to happiness. I never say there is only one path to success.

Would it interest you guys who call Suzanne a spoiled brat to know that she has gone out of her way to help me with some personal issues? That she doesn’t have to, but takes time with each person with bulimia or anorexia to tell them about how ZC changed her life? That she’s a normal woman who enjoys movies, reading, playing with her son and a good steak? That she’s made her own money and invested well? No?

Re: Charles remark. Yes, he is jealous of DCF. If he bothered to read the site, he would realize that with the exception of 1 or 2 infrequent posters, everyone is ZC like me or VLC (meat plus veggies). No one is eating grains or fruit and a few people drink.

CW is FOREVER potificating that on ZC, one eats when hungry and stops when full, and becomes exasperated when people do not follow HIS simple rule. Yet, for example, in post 3223 on this page,(and in various other recent posts):


He states:-

“My inability to stay in the 140s was solely caused by my inability to eat when hungry and not eat when I was not hungry.”

This is just one example of him recently, owning up to not practising what he preaches,yet he expects everyone else to follow this rule and becomes annoyed when he,(he says)has to continually explain this to people!!! The man is SUCH a hypocrite!!!!

This man is contentious and continues to change the rules to suit and fit himself. It’s such a shame that so many good people have left ZIOH because of him, but thay are the clever ones, who have distinguished the difference between this great WOE and the narcissistic CW and his ZIOH site!!!

Listen people, right now I just don’t get it! WTF does it matter that Suzanne goes for manicures? Whether she’s wealthy or poor? How she prefers to raise her child? Her perception on raising kids? How is this relevant to anything? It seems people now take everything she has to say, pull it apart and turn it into a negative. This kind of thing weakens the points that really matter!

IMO Suzanne is a two-faced bitch and her nastiness causes psychological harm. Katelyn, wake up and grow up, Suzanne bad-mouthed you behind your back like you won’t believe “girl”!

Now, what I would REALLY like to know is this: was Suzanne under the spell of that evil CW, or did we see the REAL Suzanne when she was in a position of power over at ZIOH? I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt and see how she behaves on ALC. Over there cults aren’t tolerated so either she would be enabled to become a nice person (again?) or she would leave. That to me would tell me who the real Suzanne is. And I need to witness this in order to determine how strong and evil a diet cult could be (or any cult for that matter, but this is besides the point).

So why not give the bitch (and read this word in context please) a chance to see how she functions when not under an evil spell? The only thing I find odd at this stage is that she’s still a member of ZIOH. Suzanne are you still there or have you left that cult?

I asked to leave, but I guess he did not delete my membership. It has no effect on me, I do not post there.
As for me, I am both. I can be very nice and yes, I can be a bitch. I have said many things about Katelyn, but not behind her back. I said everything right to her face.
Do not expect me to be all sweetness and light over at ALC. I am who I am. I am very blunt and direct. I have bad days and can be a bitch. I have good days and can be very compassionate.
AntiZIOH, you are not exactly a role model for good behavior yourself.

“I asked to leave, but I guess he did not delete my membership. It has no effect on me, I do not post there.
As for me, I am both. I can be very nice and yes, I can be a bitch. I have said many things about Katelyn, but not behind her back. I said everything right to her face.” ~ Suzanne

Bullshit!! I have emails and pm’s to prove you wrong! And I know for a fact you said many things to other people re Katelyn behind her back. Why are you still lying??

“Do not expect me to be all sweetness and light over at ALC. I am who I am. I am very blunt and direct. I have bad days and can be a bitch. I have good days and can be very compassionate.” ~ Suzanne

I never expected you to be “all sweetness and light”. I was wondering if you cause psychological harm when you are the REAL Suzanne, and not the one in person on ZIOH. I also have a pm from you which you sent to a new member about 2.5 months ago over at ALC wherein you were seriously bad mouthing and saying very nasty things about TigerLily. You didn’t even know this new member!

“AntiZIOH, you are not exactly a role model for good behavior yourself.” ~ Suzanne

I never claimed to be. Also, I was never part of leadership of a diet cult. I fail to see the relevance of this statement by you.

Anyone who wants to send me more info, herewith my email address again: rose.honeybee@gmail.com


BTW, I won’t reveal anyone’s identity. You who have sent me stuff can testify to this.

I said a lot of bad things about Katelyn and Tigerlily, but I am pretty sure I said them all to their face, not behind their back. I am not two faced like that. If I am going to say something, I will say it to your face. I will also talk about you when not around, most people do that.
I am sure you have said or written things about me to other people that you have not said directly to me. so what? That is your right.

Suzanne, either your memory sucks or you are a pathological liar. Make your pick.

Well, my memory is not that great. I think we have proven that here.
So, what have I said about TL or Katelyb behind their backs, that I have not said to their face?

Anti_ZIOH_Cult, has it been 5 weeks yet?

Sorry, was touring South America.

She’s gone. That’s all I wanted.

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